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SHOW NOTES:
In this episode, we have Dr. Arna Alayne Morton, PHD in violin performance, share her experience with burnout in her doctoral studies. Not only was she completed her PHD, she was maintaining a YouTube channel with over 90K subscribers. The multi facet income stream brought her more stress than she can managed. for the past two years, she has been gradually recovered from her burnout.
Today, she is on the show sharing her story and valuable insights she learned from her own journey. We discuss tips on recovery and prevention, and how to maintain a balanced lifestyle.
She will also share her incredible newly launched music course - HIIP method. It is a proven to be efficient practice method that help you to achieve more and faster in your practice room.
You can find more about her at:
https://www.mortonmusic.online/
her instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arnaalayne/
Resources:
Book: Lost Connections: Why You’re Depressed and How to Find Hope by Johann Hari
Essentialism - The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown
Feeling good by David Burns
Transcription:
Amy [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of Thrive x Strive Musician podcast, a weekly podcast where we dive into the personal development, bring particle tools for all your musicians to implement into your personal and professional life. Help musicians to grow, glow and thrive.
[00:00:15] I'm excited to bring today's guest Dr.Arna to discuss the topic on burnout and to discover the ways to prevent and recover from it and how to be compassionate to yourself and heal ourselves through accepting our feelings. And we will also talk about her new online course on practice method. So stay tuned.
[00:00:40] Welcome back to the show. Today's guest Dr.Arna Alayne Morton. She just completed her PHD in violin performance at Melbourne University Conservatorium of Music. Last year, the dissertation topic she wrote was on Britten Violin Concerto, which she performed with the University of Melbourne Symphony Orchestra in 2016 as the winner of 2015 NCM Concerto Competition. As a beauty and tutorial YouTube, Arna has over ninety thousand subscribers for the past two years. She started showing more of her life's journey, being vulnerable and resilient through her mental health battle. She has just launched her online music business and released an online course showing an incredible, efficient practicing method called the HIIP Method. Let's welcome to Dr.Arna Alayne Morton.
Arna [00:01:29] Cool.
Amy [00:01:29] OK, so let's me just jump into it. So I know that last year you just got your PHD. Yeah. Let's start from your life before YouTube and how something that's lead you into wanting to do this YouTube.
Arna [00:01:44] Oh wow. OK. That was actually way back in my masters. Yeah. So back in New Zealand is when I started my channel in 2013. It's been a long time. I've had it for a while. I'm someone that has always had to have like something else on the side of my music. I think just my whole life, when I was younger, it was very much like I did dancing on the side of music. So I was like, did my violin lessons. did violin, did music. But then I also was like a dancer and did dance competitions and kind of love. I've always loved having that sort of variety. I guess multiple creative outlets. And then when I was I dropped dance after a while to kind of focus on music. But of course, I, I had to find another thing to, like, channel some of that extra creative energy into. So I yeah, I actually got into composition for a while as well during my undergrad and. Oh. Like later high school years. That was kind of where some of my other creative energy went. And then I literally with YouTube, I just sort of stumbled across it just, you know, as you do, you're like, oh, there's a beauty community here. Oh, what is this? And then suddenly you're like, oh, my gosh, this is so fun. And I've always loved makeup and beauty things because of my sort of dancing background. And always we like bright red lipstick and false eyelashes and stuff when I was like ten, like performing on stage and that. So I was always very like into makeup and loved that sort of thing. And I just like discovered the community. But it was so fun and it was just one of the things I was like. I want to do it too. So I just started and, you know, like it was never meant to be a thing that became sort of part of my career, I guess, in a way. But it just was like a hobby. But I still stuck with it over the years. And then. Now sort of. Yeah. Quite a big part of my life now.
Amy [00:03:32] So, yeah. Great. Yeah, I know. Like, I have to, you know, really look at some of your tutorial or stuff because I need to learn better.
Arna [00:03:41] Yeah. I nowadays though like it's funny, I don't, I don't even think I call them tutorials anymore. Like when I'm putting makeup on it's less about like technique and teaching people. It's more just like let's chat about beauty stuff, but like catch up. That sort of started as like being really interested really in like makeup and the products and applying it technique. And then it sort of became more like, this is just fun. Does it have something to connect with people over? So I definitely like don't think of myself as an expert in applying makeup. I can do it on myself fairly well. I can do to my own face. I was and now I kind of call them like makeup playdates. And it's more like just a fun things to sit there and have fun with makeup and check to my subscribers. So that's what people seem to still learn things.
Amy [00:04:21] But yeah, I bet I definitely Launa like they see that how fun it is. I like how, you know, that initially it was a hobby for you, but I know when it become almost like a business like you are committed to doing that more often it's commitment. So when you have art of things going on, especially as musicians. So that's what I really want to leading to is that, you know, how you are managing to you know, do your Phd dissertation everything while having this youtube going on.
Arna [00:04:50] Yeah. As soon as it started to become something a bit more than a hobby, the expectations of like how often you should upload and like the kinds of content you should upload, like, differently. I started to like put those I guess on myself because no one puts them on my own. You really it's just a like a thing you kind of do. I mean, there was definitely a trend in the beauty community to be like more uploads, the better, like upload as often as you can. That's how you like and grow. And I kinda wish now that looking back, maybe I hadn't done that as much and just focused a little bit more like quality over quantity because I definitely like burnt myself out trying to like build this channel, but also doing phd, like, you know, it was insane. So yeah. Well I don't regret at all like having my channel and growing it, but I just wish I'd been a bit more mindfull, I guess, of how I got there, because definitely contribute part of my sort of burnout out to just myself, my own perfectionism, pushing myself. And that tends to happen as soon as I switches from being just a fun hobby to being like, oh, this is now part of my job, lack of earning money, sorts. I've got to like, you know, actually show up and commit and do things that I still do. And it's like, you're right, when the gig stop pouring in as well, then you're like, feel overwhelmed. And there's one point I remember getting up at 5:00 a.m. every day just to like edit the videos in the morning and then go off to uni. And, you know, it was just not good burning the candle at both ends, so... yeah.
Amy [00:06:18] So I'm noticing that you have two YouTube channel. The other one, that more music doesn't really have a lot subscribers. Seems like our actually classical music channels always have less attraction. It's just very interesting how when you as a musician but you do something on the side that is completely different and all the sudden it blows up on the Internet. But then when you actually, you know, playing something you want to share, but then not really a lot of people come and watch...
Arna [00:06:45] And I think that's just it's a different culture around like subscriber culture. I guess so. With music. Take an example like TwoSet Violin. So they are classical musicians, but they YouTube is and they've created an entertainment YouTube channel that just happens to be about classical music and violin. Whereas my Morton Music channel that we've got there, that's really just a place for us to upload more long form performances if we have them. I've sort of said to my subscribers, I don't expect regularity or, you know, we've only got two videos so far. It's just literally like, oh, we want to put this performance somewhere. That's a good place for it. But yeah, no, I agree, like with beauty content and lifestyle content, which I'm sort of transitioning a bit more into sort of general lifestyle now. I think it's easier to form a connection with your viewers and those sorts of genres. I guess because you're kind of talking with your view is and you they relate to you in that level, but like performing on a stage with your instrument, people might really enjoy a performance, but they're not going to then go, oh, I feel so connected to this business where I switch such and watch all this stuff. I mean, unless you blew them away. I don't know. For me, too, with when I look at YouTube for like wanting to like listen to how this piece goes. Yeah. I just like type it in, click nice. And I don't think about subscribing to that business general because it's just not how I used the platform for classical music listening. I noticed this at the start of the pandemic. A lot of my friends were like, help me get my channel to a thousand subscribers because then I can monetize my channel. And, you know, this is way we can get for. And I was thinking, though, like, it's I like to actually earn money through YouTube. You actually need to have like a decent amount of views regularly. You've got to think about your music is more of a business where your YouTube videos that you put up are leading generations for what you offer. So if you offer music lessons, if you're trying to just create a strong brand for your you know, if you're concert pianist and you like I want to get known for this, you put out that content. So people go like it creates authority for what you do. But it's not about like this video is going to go viral. I got tons of money and that's that's only really if you're making, like, regular entertaining content for an audience. Yeah, I see. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's just a different strategy. It's like every business should have a YouTube channel, but don't expect the YouTube channel to make a lot of money. It's going to drive very targeted nation traffic to what you offer and whether that be online music lessons or, you know, in our case, course - a course that we've put out like. So that's that's the purpose of of that of having a channel rather than like growing big thousands of subscribers and, you know, living off AdSense.
Amy [00:09:25] Yeah, it's it's funny because my other YouTube channel, it was initially started as a vegan channel.
Arna [00:09:32] Oh, cool.
Amy [00:09:33] Also as a hobby. Yeah, I made a crazy noodle challenge video which blow up on there.
Arna [00:09:39] It's amazing.
Amy [00:09:39] And so my, my friends is like, you should put that one in, like, you know, advertise it.
Arna [00:09:43] Yeah. Like I definitely plug my own Morton music stuff to my subscribers because there's a good chunk of people that follow me because they've either musicians currently or they maybe did music in the past, there is that small connection there. That's just it's just a place to hopes that more long form content. Yeah, pretty much.
Amy [00:10:02] Yeah. So I am actually right now doing my dissertation. haha..
Arna [00:10:07] You're in the thick of it. How many years in?
Amy [00:10:10] So many years. I've actually battled a lot of my mental issues from my first year into the doctoral program. I just started to having issu es. Now I finally got out of it. But as the pandemic hits, it was right after my competitions. So I thought it was a perfect chance for me just start my dissertation, but I actually didn't really quite do anything. And I was just stay at home and watch Chinese dramas.
Arna [00:10:34] Love it.
Amy [00:10:35] I know that if you watch like Game of thrones.
Arna [00:10:36] Yeah, haha.
Amy [00:10:37] Like. But I was binging on like. You know, a whole entire season of them.
Arna [00:10:41] Yeah. That's OK. I feel like we need to be okay with that. Like, just make the banana break, you know? They will need to just take their time. This is not normal. Pandemics are normal.
Amy [00:10:53] We need time to adjust for sure.Yeah. The... once I finally I was like, OK, I made a decision. I wanted to put a deadline right there for my proposal. But that is also when I did a little bit of life coaching and...
Arna [00:11:07] Nice!
Amy [00:11:07] I started thinking about I really wanted to help people more. And in a way that just more than violin lessons. But having that podcast and YouTube and on the side of my dissertation, I just noticing it very, very hard to manage both.
Arna [00:11:21] Yes. It's the multi hash issue. People want to hear that. It's super easy to kind of just you live a really multifaceted life. But I think it's about it's about balance. You can't possibly do all the things equally or you can't specialize necessarily in one thing. And that's something that like kind of the reason why I'm moving my channel a little bit more lifestyle is so that I can just focus more on my music and just allow that to be a bit, because that started to get just pushed down by how much he's doing with the online social media work. And it was actually in the pandemic as soon as it hit because we're New Zealand citizens living in Australia. So we actually don't get support here, especially because of our line of work being freelance. We got no government support for like the sudden loss of income with gigs and such. So I kind of panicked and started making like a hectic load of content. But then it was like sort of six weeks and numbers, like I've lost the joy from it having to do it as my full time job and I missed my music and investing my time at that. So it kind of made me be like, OK, I have to, like, reassess this and just cut back. Go back to being a bit more of a hobby that can still support us a bit, but really start investing my time again. Back to my music. Yeah, I just thought I got the balance all wrong. But it is that you have to be aware of that. It's not like you can't. What I tried to do my pitch day was do everything full bore, like full capacity and I bit myself out. So I definitely contribute a lot of my own decisions to like the decline of my mental health. Obviously there were other things that come into it. The isolation of general postgraduate study anyway can be really hard. But I certainly just didn't show my self enough self compassion and I just pushed myself too hard. And then I burnt out. And then I'd get depressed from having no energy from being burnout. And that was just like a cycle. And that was really hard to get out of. So I guess because I had that experience, I have sort of 2017, 2018 that I really went through that last year. I kind of took a sabbatical like after I submitted, I was my husband was on contract with an orchestra. So he was like keeping us afloat. And I was able to just like have a few months of that kind of chew and just not do a lot. So I kind of I guess what you did in that month, like you just like doing nothing.
Amy [00:13:27] ha..yes.
Arna [00:13:27] yeah. I needed that because I had been in an institution for like ten years, like studying. And I was just like over it and needed a break and needed life time just to recuperate. I guess my advice is just like you have to be okay with the fact that you can't pour a hundred percent into every thanks. You've got to look at it as like my time and energy is a hundred seats. How do I divide it? So for me now it's a bit more like 80 percent music, 20 percent YouTube, because I've gone back to like one video week, which is really sustainable. I still get to enjoy so good catch up with my followers, but it's just like it just allows me so much more time to invest into Morton music. And it's my practice and I feel like I finally got that balance back again now. So just be okay. Like, be realistic, I guess, with what you can do really. And what sustainable might be sustainable for three weeks, but then you'll burn out and is about thinking long term. What do I. What can I actually do realistically now?
Amy [00:14:12] I'm already starting to feel that a little bit. How is experience with, you know, finding that burnout and then to be able to actually recover?
Arna [00:14:19] Yeah, like during my pitch days or 2017, 2018. That's when I went through my hardest period mentally. And I do I would call it a burn out that I ignored and tried to push through. And then it kind of developed into like pretty bad anxiety and depression from that. I think the initial stage of burnout doesn't mean you're, like suddenly going to, like, get a person is just sort of like it's a warning sign, almost that feeling of exhaustion and like low mood. It's a warning that if you keep going on that path, that things could get worse. So I kind of ignored it, tried to push through just because the hustle culture that was so rampant at that time, like I feel like a few years ago was all I hustle hard, work hard, you know, and I just sort of got a bit sucked into that.
Amy [00:14:57] How you were able to actually recover from the burnout?
Arna [00:15:01] Oh, yes. First and foremost, I went and had counseling. I had to go see a professional because there was some issues like part of the reason I got burnt out is I had really bad boundaries. So I often said yes to like everything in particular at uni. And I had some people at my uni that kind of took advantage of a little bit like they would be like, oh, Anna is happy to do anything here. His other on somebody's gonna plan. He's this all the time, you know. And it was a wee bit like I did so many extracurriculars and things and that was just. Yes. Steaming from some stuff in my past that caused me to be a bit like that. So I need to talk, address that and learn how to be like actually kinda say I'd love to, but I can't right now. Like, this is my part. And just learn how to. Signs are basically because guy that, yes, culture became such a thing. I say yes to every opportunity, like go hard. I just had to learn to say no after all. And so that helps me to put up boundaries for what I needed and to know that it's not a selfish thing. And that, like, just because I'm on scholarship doesn't mean I have to do everything, you know, because that's something that often gets heald over your head. Like, that's all I felt anyway. So also, I just had some really good support because it was all kind of tied up in my pitch. I feel like that worked, like it was common once I handed it in. Things really start to lift anyway. So I think it's just like I don't know if he's really actually cut out to do a PHD. But I imagine through it go through it with a lot of support.
Amy [00:16:16] Support I definitely got a lot of support from my professors and friends.
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Amy [00:17:44] Now, let's dive back into our conversation with Dr. Arna?
Amy [00:17:48] PHD seems not that hard. and when we got into it, it just like..erhhh...
Arna [00:17:51] It's like I know I'm like I remember doing my master's and being like what's just a much longer masters. It's just like a whole nother level of like debt instead of just like going upper level, like double the work or triple the work. It's like 30 times though. It like it's, it's the complexity of it that is hard to deal with. Yeah. And the isolation, it's a very lonely process research. So I truly believe that universities don't do enough to support their graduate students on like a mental level. It was evident that I was struggling. I lost like a heck of a lot of weight in a short time. And like people could see that I wasn't in a good place. But there's like these policies in place within all that to even ask. Clearly, I was not in a good place and I needed support. And there was it was almost like I was too P.C. to ask or step in. But like, ah....
Amy [00:18:35] Yeah, I was curious, how was the Australian culture or the uni, you know, for these graduates?
Arna [00:18:42] I think it's probably better than the U.S. as far as I've heard in the U.S. it's it's even more sort of intense and there's more expectations. I mean, The Phd program in Australia is a little bit more diluted than overseas. We don't have some of those extra like you have like extra things you kind of have to do on the side like exams and things, or.
Amy [00:19:00] You don't have an exam for, like, you know, the qualifying things to going to write that dissertation?
Arna [00:19:06] No. Literally, we had like a confirmation seminar. So I had to deliver after my first year to deliver seminar. Talking about what to research so far and where my research was going to go. And then you're officially not on probation anymore, like you're officially in your pinchy candidate then? I guess it's called like a mini defense. So, like, I had questions from the panel, dean and had to answer them, but but it felt I was pretty chill like it was a very positive experience. I'm still nervous about it, but I do hear about the defense thing. from the American phd Student, so I'm Iike we don't it here. So like we want a slightly more cruzi ride, then I think Australia is the way to go. But my my supervisor, though, he's American. So that was kind of yeah. He was like, oh, you're gonna do this and do that as well, because, you know, that's what we do in the US. It's like, well, would I actually have to do that? Yeah, but. okay.
Amy [00:19:55] well, yeah, we actually have a longer so I feel like here in America like a lot of us, some of us don't really have ideas. When you start really writing the dessertation, that's when you know, your professor will say, hey, start thinking about the topics.
Arna [00:20:09] Huh. So what do you do for the first part?
Amy [00:20:12] A lot of coursework, just a lot of things.
Arna [00:20:15] We don't do coursework like we just started coursework. Well, I had to do was write my dissertation and do my performances. That's what you can do at three years. I took four because I did extracurriculars and also got pretty depressed. So things took longer. Yeah. I think that's also part of the imposter syndrome. Always felt a bit as well as like is My phd legit? I don't know. It just always feels a bit like. I don't know.
Amy [00:20:37] Yeah I know. I saw one of your videos. Talking about that you like. I'm just faking. Yes. I feel that, too, like sometimes I'm like, oh, do I really know all of the you know, like, I now feel a little better?
Arna [00:20:49] I do. Yeah, I do. I haven't really thought about it much for a while.
Amy [00:20:53] So do you think the thoughts were more frequent when you're doing the phd?
Arna [00:20:57] Yeah, definitely. I took my decline in mental health during that time was very much like it was a combination of things that sort of caused it, but particularly that sense of like I'm a fraud. What am I doing here? Like, is my research even relevant? Like, why should why should people care? You know, it was that sort of thing, because it's very my phd was so personal and extremely it was about me and my development as a musician. And it just feels like what am I contributing. But actually, once I did pass, that is when I was like, OK, that's good. It was worth it. And they agree that this is relevant and adds to the literature. But it just at the time, I felt quite meaningless, like I'm like people are out there, like trying to cure cancer. And I'm writing about myself playing the violin. Yeah, I felt a lot of that fraud impostor syndrome.
Amy [00:21:39] I definitely think you're not alone. I felt that a lot. And that's why I feel like we should be able to talk about it. And I hope that a lot of people were listening, just not really feel that way. I feel this. And the only one.
Arna [00:21:52] Yeah, I guess now I understand that. Like, it's not about you. Like now my dissertation can contribute to, like, showing people a unique way to interpret music. Like, I've grown so much as a musician and been able to get deeper in that way so that I can contribute more through my art to the world. So now I can say the value in it. But I think at the time it was really difficult to to say that. so..
Amy [00:22:15] So you think there's anything you can say back then to yourself that can actually help you not think that way?
Arna [00:22:22] That you'll actually get through this and you'll pass like it's okay, keep going. Because at the time I didn't know.
Amy [00:22:28] So I heard you talked about your bullet journaling. Does that really helped your project management or time management?
Arna [00:22:36] Yeah. I went through a stage was a bit of an ove-planner though. It was like procrast planning, as I call it back then. Yeah. Before I got into the digital way of things, I'd use it as my diary, my Joe and I'd like time block out. The problem I faced often was say Sunday I'd get this burst of inspiration being like this week's gonna be the best way that everything and I'm not going to grab so excited and I block out my week. Then Monday morning I'd like wake up and I'd feel not in a good space. And then if I miss if I got behind my work and that morning. We need a priest. It's really hard to get the motivation to do things. So then I would feel bad about being behind it, which made things worse. And I'd get anxious about the fact that I'm not getting through everything in the week and then out of a spiral like it would be like I had no resilience back then. So even just this I was like are so fragile that if I felt like I was failing one thing or something didn't quite go right, I just crumble. Whereas now, like, I get behind it, it's okay. I can push that tomorrow. Like, it's just I've just got so much more resilience now. I needed to show myself so much more self compassionate than I wish. I had been kinder to myself realized that. Yeah. Trying to pump out like multiple videos a week on YouTube while doing phd while holding out like a part time job to support yourself. It's just too much like stop. Just be easy on yourself instead of like beating myself up for not being on it. And that didn't help. Yeah. As you say, like what would I tell myself. Probably just to be a little bit more self compassionate because beating yourself up just doesn't help. But in the space at the time, that's what you do.
Amy [00:24:05] As like, you know, I experience a lot of depressions before and and I feel like a mental illness. It's actually what you're being really harsh on yourself and beating yourself up and starting to getting into that kind of mind... Mental space?
Arna [00:24:19] Yeah. So then the depression comes from that is what you're saying? Yeah. That's how I view it. Yes. Who have you read the book Lost Connections?
Amy [00:24:25] No..
Arna [00:24:27] I think I remember the author's name, but that's a brilliant book that I read during that hard time. I guess it just gives you a new perspective on how and why you're depressed. Like it makes you realize there are maybe I don't just have some random chemical imbalance in my brain. Maybe it's actually situational and maybe I can actually change some things to help myself at least feel a little bit better. Like you're not completely helpless in this. I certainly needed a lot of support from friends to, like, get to that point. But it's like as soon as I made an effort to just stop being myself up, change that sort of mindset. It's so hot in the moment. They're like even today, I still have some days where I'm just like, erh! you know, I've got to be like, go be kind. Like, I still remind myself this is never something that will go away completely. But I've certainly got better tools to deal with it, making sure i'm getting enough sleep because I'm sleep deprived. Nothing will help my mental how you know, like that's the most first and foremost. So it called lost connections because he talks about how often I mean, it's really prevalent right now because of lost connection to each other. So a lot of people, a lot of young people are experiencing like a lot of mental health issues, probably for the first time because they're suddenly disconnected from their friends and their workmates and, you know, having to be isolated. And that's loss of kinship. It's really hard to replace with digital form. I mean, that's essential human need. Emotional need. We've got physical needs like water, shelter, all that food. But then there's these emotional ones that if we don't have those, we will then become unbalanced. So it's not that like that imbalance just randomly occurs. At least that's what the science is now suggesting. I loved that because it gave me the sense there's power and may get through this. And as if I just changed some circumstances like. It is that thing of if you keep doing the same thing again and again and you expect things to get better, then it's actually not going to happen. You have to actually make some changes. Like you, if you're feeling lonely, which a lot of depression just comes from loneliness, go to try and find a way to connect. And at the moment, it's really Blenman hard because we're all at home. But you just got to do something the most you can do. Maybe you're not eating a nice balanced diet and that's, you know, that's causing you to to feel sluggish and lack of energy, which then, you know, makes you feel bad. You don't have enough energy. Do stuff, like just eating more vegetables. You don't to go on some extreme diets, eat vegetables, um, and drink more water and just those healthy habits that we get told so many times go, yeah, yeah whatever. But like that. Actually, they're important. And if you do a few of those and start small, just implement one like a few weeks. and once you are like, cool, I am actually gonna go to bed ealry for an hour, Then you can start to implement something else, so it's not too much or at once. It's not some big Sunday morning life makeover because that's unsustainable again, like all little changes. And yet that's kind of what I did, too, like just pull myself out. I just kept committing to trying to make small changes, like go to yoga, like try and like, you know, just make these tiny little changes. And eventually things just got a bit better. And once you start to see that light then gives you hope and then the hope kind of drives it. But initially, you have to just trust that this new process of going a bit early is going to be so much better for you in the long run than staying up on your phone and things like that.
Amy [00:27:29] So, yeah, that's that's kind of like what I'm talking about this week on my YouTube. It's about sleep. And I think it's also for the mental health as well, because it's like you can see the declining of your mood. I feel like sometimes it's not even just because the imbalance if you going to a doctor, they might say, oh, you know, you might need me to take some pills. You're depressed.
Arna [00:27:53] So I'm just gonna say I'm not a medical doctor, even though I'm a doctor, I'm not a doctor. But the states have a real problem with overmedicating and overprescribing things. And I do think at the very least, doctors should be suggesting alternatives to medication initially for things like mental health, issues like depression, anxiety. There are other things you can do. And again, I don't want to step on anyone's toes at all and give out motivation. But for many of us that suffer with more of a situational depression or anxiety, for me, I never went on meds because I just went and got therapy like talk therapy, which may I may not work. Very funny. But I think it's worthwhile trying at first just because talking with my friend last night about this, actually, when you go on those kind of depression meds, then you you're numb out to the highs and the lows. So you might not getting as down, but like you miss all the joy that comes with that. And like, life is such a... I mean, you appreciate the highs more in a way when you've got the lows to balance it. I know that sounds really bad, but that's how I felt like if I win on these. I was like, I don't want to miss that anonymous the highs because I still experience such beautiful, amazing moments and my darkest times. It was just that it was like. Yeah. But I found as just like getting good quality sleep and actually putting myself first and learning to say no to things. So I had time and energy allowed things to just I had less of the lows. No, I don't want to like people to think that I'm like diagnosing like don't get on pills like the doctor suggested.
Amy [00:29:13] Yeah. Yeah. But I do I do agree, like, some people might be misdiagnosed. They actually just like lacking of sleep or not having a good life. Good lifestyle
Arna [00:29:22] Yeah. I guess this book, Lost Connections, I think explores how it's almost like our behaviors and actions can then cause that change in the brain. So it's more like is it is it a symptom or is it the root cause? And I'd suggest depression is really a symptom of an unbalanced life, the something got... there is an issue in here. you either doesn't have enough connection with people or you're working self too hard, like, there's something out of balance here and being down or will perhaps being anxious or however it's being expressed, it's really a symptom of an issue in your life rather than that is the thing. Like, wooo, my brain's just decided to suddenly, like, stop producing serotonin. I mean, I think for some people, it just doesn't happen as much as it would say. Like doctors would would diagnose women who've lost children, miscarriages like that. Oh, you've got depression now, so here's some pills. It's like she's just lost a baby. She's in grief like she's grieving, like just support and isn't. Right. Just to throw pills at someone just because they're in grief. I mean, I think a lot of people at the moment are struggling with grief because we're grieving the loss of the life we thought we'd have in 2020 and beyond. And especially for us, around the age of like emerging professionals, we're going. So when do we actually get to live our best adult life now? like...It's kind of like that's really hard. So a lot of us, a lot of my friends, they're just grieving...the loss of what we thought we'd have, and that's that's OK. I don't think we need to be medicated for that. But again, I'm not a medical professional, just restate. But that's just my opinion.
Amy [00:30:51] I think. Yeah, I think it reminds me of the book that I read. I was 'feeling good'. I also forgot that doctor. What's that name? So it's kind of like similar. It talked about, like, you know, the momentum of like you can actually think yourself to be feeling good.
Arna [00:31:05] Yeah. Like, you don't have to be like everything's fine and you didn't have to, like, lie to yourself. That's actually can be just as detrimental. I think it's about just being like like one thing that really, really helped me was just to be like I'm feeling depressed and that's okay. Like, just literally acknowledging it. I mean, like, that's OK. It's the same with, like, performance anxiety. I just go, oh, hello, old friend. You're back, you know, like, I'm nervous, but this is fine. I'm used to you. You hear every time. So it's kind of like I think a lot of people squash those awful feelings down and that's they like coping mechanism for it. They're afraid to if I acknowledge it, then I'll just become like, I'll get even more depressed. But actually, it's often it's for his the sense of clarity just to be like, I'm feeling down, I'm not feeling well, and that's OK and know that it's not so.
Amy [00:31:50] Right. Because if you I always think that, oh, they're going to be forever. And that's kind of like a limit believed to herself that you're you already put on yourself like, OK, that's not going to get better. But I embrace that anxiety or in ways that depression and..
Arna [00:32:06] Work through it like like sit in it so you can process it. You can't actually process grief or emotion without feeling it. And that's why numbing our symptoms with pills. I just for myself personally, I didn't want to do that. It's the same reason. Like, I just think pain is a useful thing. It tells us that something's not right, which is numb out the pain all the time. And a lot of people do it with emotional pain by drinking and then resorting to different coping mechanisms. You know, we've all got our thing that we do to try to numb pain. And in doing that, we then can't feel it. So we don't then acknowledge what's actually wrong.
Amy [00:32:45] And actually, I think that's the healing power that you're able to heal from it. But if you don't feel that, then we cannot really actually heal. It's basically covered up and eventually you'll have to go dig deep. But that root, we become deeper and deeper.
Arna [00:32:57] I agree with that.
Amy [00:32:58] You know, as years pass by.
Arna [00:33:00] And then you carry that pain into like every other experience and it starts to taint. Yeah, well, those experiences.
Amy [00:33:07] Yeah. It's like the tree. Right. Like, you know, the the roots always goes deeper and either you plant something good or you plant something not so good that it can still grow.
Arna [00:33:17] Yeah. We'd still grow. Yeah.
Amy [00:33:20] Great! I think we dived pretty deep into the..
Arna [00:33:23] We did. I hope it's okay. As I say, not a medical doctor does want to just claim I always worried someone's going to but yeah.
Amy [00:33:32] Well maybe just mentioned a little bit about like the HIIP method. I was just curious about that. Yeah. Maybe a helped show everyone else to understand and then see the importance of that.
Arna [00:33:44] Yeah. So yes. And my husband and I, he's a horn player. And through our online music business, most music, we've launched an online course. It's called the Hip Method, which stands for high intensity interval practice. And this is actually mostly based on philosophies from like high level industry professionals like Andrew Bane from the Los Angeles Philharmonic. He's the principal horn there. You will have hit him on the frozen Star Wars. But he, he taught Alex at the Australian National Academy of Music, only once Alex got to that really like a late sort of performance school that he was like actually taught how to practice. And I know that sounds really funny because we think we all know how to practice. just do it. But many of us we haven't questioned our practice methods. We've been rethought. Is this the most efficient and effective way I can do it? Am I making the most of my limited focus, limited time? And I think the answer usually is no. Like, I think we all do quite a bit of time-wasting in our practice. So the method is it's quite an intervallic method with lots of breaks and that strategic break breaks that will help to basically helps to make the most of your limited focus. They have assfish in this day and age, like modern day and age with social media in there, our capacity to stay concentrating like a single task is really diminishing. So this helps, to make the most of that time, it's also a method that will help you to make sure that the habits that you are strengthening and your practice are the ones you actually want to be like strengthening, because every time you play your instrument, you're establishing a habit regardless of if it's good or bad. And the most common thing, I think, is that we think that we practice really hard that we get to audition or performance and we kind of like fall apart. I think we've all had that experience. We like why did that just not do it? Like I thought if I had and it's often because we just haven't strengthened the right habits for performance in our practice and in the most effective way. So this method, like it's based on a lot of sport psychology as well. So I like athletes get this really premium training. They get so much support in that regard, I think. Musicians start. So we wanted to take, I guess, the knowledge that Alex basically learned he had, like he went from just like not passing any auditions, just feeling like I'm working so hard I just can't, you know. And then, like, kind of learned about the method, properly implemented it. And then like six months later, he'd pass it to casual auditions and like got a contract with Melbourne Symphony Orchestra and his created, like, so much faster. So it's all such rapid growth on his instrument and his craft in such a short space time to an experience at four. And he's like, this is brilliant. Like, we can totally we need to get this out to the world. So it's basically to be sort of think of it. It's a method for how to practice super efficiently and effectively. It'll save you time, take energy and help you to get you to create goals faster.
Amy [00:36:21] So so who you think you would suggest to?
Arna [00:36:24] It's definitely for more. The method and the course itself, the way the course is structured, it's a self learning course, but with a community as well. So with the Facebook page, it's private. Then course members who's get access to so we can give extra support and by community there. But it's definitely for more upper intermediate to advanced students just because you've got to have a bit of an understanding, I guess, of your instruments, basic fundamentals. And I think if you're a beginner, you might still find value on the course, but you definitely have to do it with a teachers sort of guidance. If you're intermediate, it's advanced. Absolutely. It'll change your life.
Amy [00:37:00] What do you think about professionals?
Arna [00:37:02] I think officials would benefit from.. 100%!. Yeah, I think a lot of professionals might be like, I don't need that. But I think we can always learn new things, like it's that growth mindset. Like there's something I really admire particularly my husband. He's always hungry to learn and he's not like ashamed to be like, yeah! i'm gonna have a lesson with this person. He's he's a working professional, but he's like, I want to keep growing. I want to keep getting better. And I love that.
Amy [00:37:26] Thank you for sharing that. OK, so it's time for some rapid fire question round. OK, yeah. What is the strangest things you ever have eaten.
Arna [00:37:35] The strangest thing of if. All right. The first thing that popped into my head as one time I went to a fare like a carnival and I had hot chips and I wrapped them in candy floss. Yep. It's really good. Yeah. It was so yummy because it's like sweet and salty. Oh yeah. Hot chips in Australia. New Zealand. That's like fries, French fries. We just called them chips. Everything's chips here. Are it candy floss. You guys call it something I asked to cotton candy. Yeah. So for Kiwis in Australia adds it's courtships wrapped in candy floss. But for my American friends, it is French fries wrapped in cotton candy.
Amy [00:38:09] Yeah, that's very interesting. But I think Sweden and thought he is always a good combination. Yeah. What's your current favorite dish?
Arna [00:38:17] My current favorite food is not as weird, but it is another situation of kind of savory meat. Sweet. It's this roast butternut soup that I've been making. I really want to like, write out a recipe for it. It's got some secret ingredients in it. One of them being maple syrup, which is amazing. Yep. So that gives it that little sweet moment. Roast butternut squash or butternut pumpkin, as we call it here. It's got carrots in it as well. And like onion and then it's old and garlic and it's all blended together and then it's got sage butter and sage leaves on top. Yeah, it's incredible. But even my husband likes it and he doesn't really like soup.
Amy [00:38:50] I can imagine a picture of the sage on top.
Arna [00:38:53] Yeah. But I love Sage is like my favorite herb.
Amy [00:38:58] So, you know, going into our fall eventually. Oh, I'll probably try that definition.
Arna [00:39:04] Because we're in winter right now. So we're very much in the soup and the soup and stew life.
Amy [00:39:08] Next question. So if you could go anywhere where you would go in a world Arna [00:39:12] And like world was not in a pandemic, where would I go? I mean, if I had the chance tomorrow, I would go back to New Zealand seeing my family also because New Zealand's beautiful site, wind travel, does open up again. Definitely go to New Zealand. But also, I'm obsessed with Denmark and anything, Danish and Scandinavian. And I'd probably go back to Scandinavia in general and spend the winter up and like I'd go back and like around Christmas time and got to let land and across Iceland see the northern lights and all that. Yeah. So, yeah, definitely want to do a Scandinavian winter holiday, but they might have to be the end of 2021 probably.
Arna [00:39:51] But yeah, it's going to be a while. So yeah. For the next one. Where do you want to go if you can be invisible?
Arna [00:39:58] ah...Where would I go if I was invisible.
Amy [00:40:00] Or what do you would do.
Arna [00:40:03] umm...Probably right now I would go to the movies because they're all shot now. But I could like sneak in because I'd be invisible and there's no one because everything's locked down in Malbourne so I should just go anywhere.
Amy [00:40:13] Yeah. I mean, it's extra safe if you're just you.
Arna [00:40:17] Yeah, exactly. And if I'm invisible, there is no one can see me,, and I can just like, put on any movie,steal a popcorn. Yeah! I haven't been to a movie since February.
Amy [00:40:27] So. All right. So what's the biggest strength you think you have?
Arna [00:40:32] I would say I'd say my resilience. Now I may not have always had it, but like now I think. I think I don't give myself enough credit for how hard I work. So, yeah, maybe like hardworking, dedicated kind of attitude, which can. It's like a bell curve. Like it. It's good. Most of the time it if it goes too far, then it can become like my worst. It's the same with like being very particular. Like it can easily Lages like perfectionism which is very detrimental. But like being really like thorough with stuff. And that can be a good strength. So I guess my hardworking attitude for the most part has gotten me a lot of my success in life. So, yeah, let's say that dedication, like when I was not well at all. Things like resilience, grit, determination, like it just that had been weakened so much. It's OK if they're not back to, like, formal self. You know, it's a journey takes a long time. You've got to continually work on it and like just protector and chicken with those sorts of things to make sure that they're still OK. Can easily, like, go back.
Amy [00:41:30] OK. I found a question very interesting is that if your life was a novel and what would the title be? Could be anything.
Arna [00:41:37] And it's actually really funny. So 'imperfectly perfect'. Let's just say that because I said once to my husband, Arthur Ashe wrote a book on perfectionism because it's like I really struggled with and his comment just made me laugh so much. He was like, you'll never finish it. ahaha. So I loved that. So yeah, probably like I call my plants that I'm like them perfectly perfect because they have flaws, but they're perfect, just like.
Amy [00:42:01] Yeah, yeah. My initial podcast name was perfectly imperfect musician podcast.
Arna [00:42:06] Oh, I love it. we are on the same page.
Amy [00:42:08] Except I have to change it because there was another person literally named Exact Same Out included in my first podcast. I talked about the concept of it. I agree. Like you are perfectly imperfect.
Arna [00:42:19] Yes. And is it actually impossible to be perfect? Soon as you realize that you're like, oh, okay, who takes a weight off? Yeah. Okay, so the last question. If there's one thing that you want my listeners to take away today, what that would be.
Amy [00:42:32] Okay. So I read this really amazing book recently in essentialism. Have you heard of it?
Arna [00:42:36] Yes, I'm reading it.
Amy [00:42:37] That's brilliant. He talks about it like above all else, just protects the ass to protect yourself. Like, you can't call from any decompensate thing. So that would be my one takeaway. Like, just look after yourself. Put yourself first. Put boundaries in and realize that you've only got a limited capacity, but you've only got that one cup. You can't just magically be like, I'm going to have three cops now that you got. That's it's scientifically impossible in the situations. Are you okay with knowing that you eat? You know, you've got to divvy that that energy level of the cop over all the things that you do. And there's no more months of thrown out, thrown out. There's only so many hours and day. There's only so much any energy in a day. And it's that thing that the cop would refill probably if you don't get enough sleep. Look after yourself. So give yourself this puzzle chance by refilling a cup 100 percent, by looking after yourself, because you start to have less and less like reserves,.
Amy [00:43:27] Or, I think the picture in my mind, it's like, you know, if you don't really properly replenish it, sleep well. Our cup can be cracking and they can be leaking. So. So no matter how much you fill, it can already initially become less.
Arna [00:43:42] Yeah, it's already leaking out. I like that analogy. It's good.
Amy [00:43:46] Well, great. So glad to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. How can listeners get to connect with you?
Arna [00:43:53] Yes. So you can head over to my Instagram is probably the easiest. It's just @ArnaAlayne And I also have Facebook and then as well. But I'm most active on Instagram. And then we also have our music business account, Morton Music online. So it's on Instagram. And our website. MortonMusic.online.
Amy [00:44:12] Nice. Great. So you guys know how to connect with it and check out the new program.
Arna [00:44:19] That one is the HIIP method.com. Yeah, but you can get that through our website as well.
Outro:
Amy [00:44:31] Okay, so I just want to say thank you again for our guest today, Dr. Arna, for joining our show. And I really hope you find today's episode helpful if you are going through a burnout. Please remember that you're not alone. And it's okay to feel stress, to feel anxiety. And please be kind to yourself and be compassionate to yourself. Be sure to check out our blog post for this episode at amywangviolin.com/podcast And subscribe to our podcast on Apple podcast Stitchers, Spotify and whatever podcast platform you use. And please download this episode. It means the world to me. If you can leave a review and shared the biggest, take away an aha moment with your friends and also on iTunes. And if you have any thoughts on today's episode or topics that you would like me to further discuss. Email me at thrivexstrive@gmail.com. Thanks again and talk to you guys next week with another solo episode on releasing the emotions and make sure to check out the link in the description for the skillshare two month free trial so he can use the weekend to learn some self care tools and help yourself to re-energize for our next week and talk to you all next Friday. Bye for now.